3. Hon RUTH DYSON (Labour—Port Hills) to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by all his statements regarding health services?

Hon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health) : Yes, including my statement that despite doubling the health budget, the Labour Government actually got less in the health service.

Hon Ruth Dyson: When he says that resources are going to the front line, does he mean the community of Tangimoana, where the nursing clinic hours have been cut from 20 to 8, and the days when patients can visit have been slashed from 6 to 2?

Hon TONY RYALL: There is more good news from the National Government. I am advised that the nursing service that people from the rural township of Tangimoana have been receiving resumes on Monday. This service is being provided by the local primary health organisation. In the meantime, people who need regular nursing attention are getting it from a nurse visiting from the Manawatū primary health organisation.

Hon Ruth Dyson: When he says that resources are getting to the front line, does he mean Nelson, where nurses fear cut-backs are putting their patients’ lives at risk; where nursing vacancies are not being filled, in order to save money; and where nurses are so pushed for time they are not even able to file serious incident reports?

Hon TONY RYALL: Regarding nursing issues in Nelson-Marlborough, I have been advised by the chair of the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board that 20 more nursing personnel are employed at Nelson Hospital than were when the Government changed. There are also 23 more medical personnel than when the Government changed. We have inherited a worsening financial situation at the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board, and that creates uncertainty for staff and the community. Last year we increased the budget by $13.5 million.

Dr Jackie Blue: Why are district health boards reviewing the way they deliver some of their services?

Hon TONY RYALL: As the members opposite know, we inherited a very difficult situation, with district health boards heading down the track to financial ruin. They did not have the resources, the staffing, or the approach needed to benefit services. Despite doubling the health budget over a 9-year period, the previous Labour Government managed to deliver fewer key services.

Hon Ruth Dyson: How many consultants will the National Health Board and the Ministry of Health have to hire this year during the influenza season, given that last year just days after the Ministry’s communications staff member was made redundant two consultants were hired to cover his communications for the swine flu epidemic?

Hon TONY RYALL: I can tell the member that spending on consultants in the Ministry of Health is down from what it was under that party opposite when it was in Government.

Hon Ruth Dyson: Does he agree with Eric Roy, described by Grey Power as unaware of the hardship being caused in Invercargill, who said in a Southland paper that if home support for older people was not cut, then core hospital services would be cut; if so, what cuts will be needed in Southland in the coming 12 months when the health sector’s budget increase is halved?

Hon TONY RYALL: There is no doubt that the southern district health boards received about $28 million extra last year. I assure the member opposite that they will be receiving a record budget this financial year.

Jacinda Ardern: Does he agree with a recent report on youth health commissioned by the Ministry of Health, which found general providers “were not being accessed by youth” but in contrast “Youth One Stop Shops” successfully provide a range of specialised, integrated health and social care services for the youth of New Zealand, and many are at capacity; if so, why is he allowing services in Christchurch and Invercargill to face closure on his watch?

Hon Bill English: You’re much better than Ruth.

Hon TONY RYALL: Yes, quite right. In respect of the 198 Youth Health Centre contracted by the Canterbury District Health Board, I have personally been in touch with the chairman, Mr Alister James, who is taking a personal interest in this cause. Mr James advises me that the district health board still has $410,000 earmarked to assist this service, and discussions are ongoing.

Hon Ruth Dyson: Does he stand by his statement: “there do have to be some changes made to services, because we have to make sure that the funding goes to the places where the public gets the best possible outcome of health spending.”, and does he think that cutting nurse positions, hours, and clinic times will give the best possible outcome for patients?

Hon TONY RYALL: The latest available information from the Ministry of Health suggests that we now have 1,100 additional nursing personnel since I became the Minister of Health. Nurses around New Zealand have more time to meet with patients and there are more nursing personnel.

Hon Ruth Dyson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER: Before I call the honourable member, I must say that if the point of order relates to the answer the Minister was giving, I will struggle to assist her. I could not hear, because of the unnecessary interjections—which had nothing to do with what the Minister was saying—coming across the front of the House. I ask members on the front benches to desist.

Hon Ruth Dyson: I heard the Minister’s answer; my point of order relates to it. You did not miss much, frankly, Mr Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER: The member must do not that.

Hon Ruth Dyson: My point of order is to ask the Minister whether he was quoting from an official document when he referred to the 1,100 extra nursing positions; if so, I ask that he table that document.

Mr SPEAKER: Was the Minister quoting from an official document?

Hon TONY RYALL: It is not an official document in the sense that it is prepared by the Ministry of Health. It is essentially a schedule that has been taken off the Ministry of Health website.

Mr SPEAKER: Let me—[Interruption] A point of order is being considered and this is a slightly different situation. If it had been notes prepared for the Minister’s answer in the House, it would not be considered an official document, but if it is a schedule unaltered taken from the website, I imagine it would be an official document.

Hon TONY RYALL: It was prepared for my answer.

Mr SPEAKER: It has been prepared for the Minister’s answer. [Interruption] I am considering a point of order and I expect the House to be in silence. I have to take the Minister’s word. If the Minister advises the House that the material he is quoting from is material prepared for his answer, then the tradition of the House is that it is not considered to be an official document.

Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am somewhat confused, because I thought that the Minister—[Interruption]

Mr SPEAKER: A point of order is being heard.

Hon David Parker: I thought the Minister said that it was a schedule printed off from the Ministry of Health website, in which case it is an official document.

Mr SPEAKER: At the end of the day I have to take the Minister’s word. He has told the House—he has told me as Speaker—that the material was prepared for his answer. It is, therefore, not an official document.

Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker—

Hon Paula Bennett: Grab it out!

Mr SPEAKER: Order!

Hon Trevor Mallard: That squawk was Paula Bennett, just to be clear.

Mr SPEAKER: That is all right. I have called the member. He will make his point of order and not—[Interruption]—and there will be silence.

Hon Trevor Mallard: My request to you is that you review on the Hansard tape what was said by the Minister on the two interventions that he made on that question to ensure that you were not misled by him, as he changed his mind.

Mr SPEAKER: I think that if members reflect on what has happened, they will see that this matter could be taken to a ridiculous extreme. Most material used in preparation for an answer has probably come electronically from some document or other. If a sentence or a small table is taken from a document to prepare information for a Minister’s answer, it does not constitute a document. The Minister has advised the House that this material was taken from a website to prepare for him to answer a question, and that is where the Speaker must accept his word. If the Speaker is to treat it in any other way, then the Speaker is not accepting the word of a member. I accept the word of all members, and that is the end of the matter.

Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker—

Mr SPEAKER: And I point out that it is the end of the matter.

Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I am not challenging your ruling—

Mr SPEAKER: I should hope not.

Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I am not; I am simply asking. I think that Trevor Mallard has made a reasonable request, in that the circumstances of this matter were that the Minister—

Mr SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat immediately. I am not sure what the member thinks he is doing, if not challenging my ruling. That is the end of the matter.

Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Another fair and balanced ruling!

Mr SPEAKER: The Hon Clayton Cosgrove will leave the House.

• Hon Clayton Cosgrove withdrew from the Chamber.

Mr SPEAKER: I do not treat these matters lightly. I find it totally unacceptable for my fairness in this House to be challenged in that way, as I think anyone watching Parliament would consider that I treat both sides of the House fairly. That is why Mr Cosgrove has left for the rest of this sitting day.