6. Hon RUTH DYSON (Labour—Port Hills) to the Minister of Health: Can he guarantee New Zealanders will not have reduced access to health services this year?

Hon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health) : There is more money in Vote Health than under the previous Government and there are more front-line services being delivered overall.

Hon Ruth Dyson: Why did he give Parliament contradictory answers when I asked him about assessments: first, saying that everyone would be assessed, and then, later in an answer to the same question, saying that everyone who wants an assessment would get one; and how do those comments line up against the announcement from the Otago and Southland district health boards that there will be no assessment for any client receiving 1 or 1½ hours of home support a week, and that they will just have that home help cut?

Hon TONY RYALL: With regard to the later point, the Otago District Health Board has made it clear that all those people will be offered an assessment, and if they seek an assessment, their hours will be maintained.

Hon Ruth Dyson: When he made the offer on Tuesday to personally intervene in any individual case of home support cuts, did he know that his ministerial colleague’s office in Southland had told a 76-year-old woman with leukaemia that the cuts to her home support were “nothing to do with the Government”?

Hon TONY RYALL: I would be unable to confirm the veracity of the member’s claim, but I tell the member that if she has any constituent cases of people being unable to stay in their homes or of their not being safe, then those cases should be brought to our attention, and we will take action.

Hon Ruth Dyson: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the introductory comments to his answer, the Minister implied that what I was saying was untrue. That is unparliamentary—

Mr SPEAKER: I ask the member to resume her seat. I do not think the Minister said that. He said he could not establish the veracity of the information contained in the question. I think that that is not accusing the member of anything—

Hon Ruth Dyson: Very close.

Mr SPEAKER: The member is doubting it, and that is fair enough, but the Minister is not accusing the member of saying anything false, at all. I think it would be incorrect to interpret it that way.

Dr Paul Hutchison: Why are the Otago and Southland district health boards having to review services being provided to their communities?

Hon TONY RYALL: We have inherited significant clinical and financial problems in the Otago and Southland district health boards. These issues have been longstanding and unresolved, creating much uncertainty for local people and staff. These pressures are a large part of why locally they have come to the conclusion that the two boards should come together. This financial year the National-led Government increased funding for Otago-Southland by $28 million, which goes only some way to dealing with the $20 million of unfunded services we have inherited. We are endeavouring to fill this gap steadily over some years, which is essential to securing the future of local health services for the people of Otago-Southland.

Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise for being one supplementary question behind, because I wanted to remind myself of my old Latin and the word “veracity”. The definition, as I think it is, goes to truthfulness and honesty. The Minister used that word in relation to the information supplied by the Hon Ruth Dyson. If the Minister had said it was factually incorrect, wrong, or inaccurate, that would be fine. But doubting someone’s truthfulness or honesty is something that this House has not allowed in the past.

Mr SPEAKER: I am not going to go back to this particular issue. Although I accept the member has looked up the meaning of “veracity” in the Collins English Dictionary—I totally accept that—I think in common usage today it does not mean to imply that someone is intentionally not telling the truth. I think the Minister was questioning the facts that were put in front of the House. As it is a supplementary question, we cannot validate the facts. Ministers are entitled to disagree with the facts. They do need to be careful how they do that, but I do not believe that questioning the veracity of the facts is in any way implying that the member was being in any way untruthful at all. I do not think we should get too pedantic in ruling out too many things.

Chester Borrows: I seek leave to table correspondence between myself and the then Minister for Disability Issues relating to an incident on 4 September 2007 when 300 people had their home care cut in Wanganui City, followed the following year by a similar number.

Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought for that document to be tabled. Is there any objection? There is objection.

Hon Ruth Dyson: What will happen to older people in Southland who not only are facing these cuts to their home support but have now been told by the district health board that it will cut the number of people entering rest homes by 1,000?

Hon TONY RYALL: I have rung the chief executive of the district health board. We can tell the member that, as I have said earlier, if there is any evidence that someone is going to be unsafe in his or her home or will be unable to stay in his or her home as a result of the changes to home care, then those matters will be taken up. We are dealing with a legacy of neglect with the Otago and Southland district health boards. The previous Government left them with over $20 million of unfunded services, and we are dealing with that.

Sue Kedgley: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Minister continued to address the issue of home care in his answer when, in fact, the question was on the number of people entering rest homes. I wonder whether the Minister did not realise that we had moved on to rest homes. Could he then attempt to answer the question about how many cuts to people entering rest homes?

Mr SPEAKER: I must confess the member has caught me there; I did not pick that up. The question was the question of the Hon Ruth Dyson, was it not? Does the member feel that her question was not answered at all?

Hon Ruth Dyson: Consistently.

Mr SPEAKER: Silly me, I guess, in asking such a question. Given that such a question has arisen under a point of order, I will invite the member to repeat her question so long as she does repeat the question she asked.

Hon Ruth Dyson: What will happen to older people in Southland who not only face these cuts but have now been told by the district health board that it will cut the number of people entering rest homes by 1,000?

Hon TONY RYALL: What will happen to these people in Southland is that they will realise that those people who are seeking rest home care will still get the assessments that the member is worried about. But what Mrs Dyson needs to realise is that the Government has inherited a very difficult situation at Otago-Southland, which has created a lot of uncertainty for staff, and we are endeavouring to deal with the $20 million of unfunded services that we inherited from the previous Government.

Hon Ruth Dyson: I seek leave to table comments from Mr Peter Harding, an 81-year-old Invercargill man, who has agreed for his name and feelings to be made known publicly, who says—

Mr SPEAKER: Before the member goes through what has been said, can I establish the source of the document, because leave is being sought to table a document.

Hon Ruth Dyson: It is Mr Peter Harding, an 81-year-old Invercargill man, as reported in the Southland Times yesterday.

Mr SPEAKER: No, I think we will not be seeking leave to table reports from yesterday in a significant newspaper.

Dr Paul Hutchison: What changes to patient services, if any, is he aware of that have been undertaken in recent years as district health boards look to live within their means?

Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am just making sure that you are going to remind the Minister to stay within areas of his responsibility.

Mr SPEAKER: I do not think the member should be pre-empting by way of a point of order what Ministers may say.

Hon TONY RYALL: I am aware of a number of changes to patient services under the previous Government, for which I have seen reports, such as the hundreds of people who had their home-cleaning services stopped in Wanganui a few years ago while Ruth Dyson was the Minister for Disability Issues. One would be very confident on the basis of this week’s apparent outrage from Ruth Dyson that she would have fought these home-cleaning changes tooth and nail. But after searching high and low for copies of press statements, letters, or even a whisper, no one can find a snippet of protest from Ruth Dyson.