Mr SPEAKER: I have received a letter from the Leader of the Opposition seeking to debate under Standing Order 376 the management of the energy crisis this coming winter. The urgent debate procedure is a means of debating a particular case involving ministerial responsibility that has already occurred, not a means of debating a general forthcoming issue. As there is no particular case of recent occurrence the application is declined.

Hon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader—NZ National) : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have listened to your reason. Last night on television the Minister, and in fact the Acting Prime Minister, emerged from Cabinet, which he chaired yesterday, to announce that the Government would be looking for much greater savings—unprecedented savings of 10 percent for ordinary New Zealanders and 15 percent for the State sector. That seems to me to be a decision that was taken by Cabinet. It was certainly announced in a way that indicated it was a decision taken by the Government and we want to know from you, if we cannot have the opportunity to debate this now, at what point do the announced savings get to such a level that you deem it is the Government’s responsibility? Your ruling was not that it was not important enough to debate, because of the time it would take the House; your ruling was that it was not a Government decision. Well surely it was a Government decision, because it was announced post-Cabinet as a Government decision.

Mr SPEAKER: No, I ruled—and I said—that as there is no particular case of recent occurrence, the application is declined. Of course, if anything significant comes up in the future I will look at this matter.

Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER: This is not a debatable ruling. I have ruled, but I want to finish what I have to say, and that was that as far as I was concerned, this did not meet the test.

Hon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader—NZ National) : I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have confused me. You are now saying this is not a case of recent occurrence. Certainly, the fact that we are entering into a power crisis has been speculated on for some time, but the decision to move the savings substantially, up to 10 and 15 percent, certainly was recent. That was announced just yesterday. I turned the radio on this morning and heard a whole range of people debating the new announcements, and debating whether the 15 percent was achievable in the public sector with regard to the health and safety aspects. Indeed, in this very building I have had staff express concern to me that the back stairwells, emergency exits, etc., have had their lights turned off. They have raised that as a health and safety issue. So I would have thought the decision that was made yesterday was certainly a recent occurrence, and I cannot see how you can rule that it was not.

Mr SPEAKER: I shall read the first sentence of Mr English’s letter: “I request an urgent debate under Standing Order 376 on the management of the energy crises facing New Zealand this coming winter.” I would suggest to the member that that is not the appropriate way to word that particular letter. It does not specify a matter of recent occurrence and on that ground I rule it out.