Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)
: I move,
That the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill be now read a second time. I am grateful to the Māori Affairs Committee for its work in considering the bill, for its report on the bill, and particularly for the speed with which it achieved that task. I would also like to thank the submitters for taking the time to participate.
The settlement of the affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū claims has been the subject of an extraordinary level of external scrutiny, right from the beginning of negotiations. No fewer than four Waitangi Tribunal inquiries considered issues of mandate, who was included in the settlement, and how the interests of overlapping claims are protected. These inquiries in turn considered the results of many hui among the iwi and hapū of Te Arawa. The select committee process is the final point at which members of the public can make submissions. This bill now, of course, belongs to the House completely.
Throughout these negotiations the input of the tribunal and others has resulted in significant changes not just to the settlement package that was initially accepted by the affiliates but to the settlement landscape in the central North Island as a whole. Parliament is in the process of considering legislation that implements “on account” settlements of the interests of a number of central North Island iwi in Crown forest land, and the affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū are party to that agreement. This settlement bill completes the resolution of their historical claims, and provides redress that is outside the scope of the Central North Island Forests Land Collective Settlement Bill, which the House will move on to upon the completion of this bill.
The Māori Affairs Committee recommended that the bill be passed, and noted that 18 of the 37 submissions were in support of the bill. It was almost inevitable, of course, that a number of submissions against the bill would be made. Most of the submissions in opposition raised issues that had been resolved or extensively covered in other forums.
I want to address three broad aspects of the settlement that the committee raised in its report. Firstly, I refer to the inclusion and naming of various iwi and hapū. Some submitters raised the concern that their iwi or hapū was inappropriately named or included within the claimant definition. These issues have been addressed at length by the tribunal, Ministers, and now the select committee. We are comfortable that Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa has the support of its people for entering into this settlement. Moreover, it is inappropriate for the Crown to interfere with the internal workings and structures of an iwi organisation at the call of factions within that organisation. The best the Crown can do is ensure that the processes through which an organisation can make its own decisions are sound.
The second key aspect is the settlement of Wai claims through a comprehensive settlement. Some submitters raised the concern that this settlement extinguishes a
number of Wai claims, without the direct involvement of the named claimants. The settlement provides redress to Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa that the submitters would seek to have returned to them under their own exclusive Treaty settlements. I can appreciate the sense of ownership that many named claimants feel over their Wai claim, but since the inception of the Treaty settlement process it has been clear that if the Crown and iwi want to settle historical grievances within our lifetimes, we cannot afford to settle claim by claim. As of a few months ago the tribunal had over 1,400 registered claims. In the last month it reportedly received some 2,000 more, though it will be some time before we know how many of those will actually be registered. Without some kind of deadline, these historical claims, or more, would have trickled in over an indefinite period.
But even before the recent deluge, the need to group claims together for either inquiry or settlement was apparent. The tribunal deals with a number of historical claims by grouping them into district inquiries and issuing a report that covers the entire district or set of issues. Most inquiries are focused on the generic effects of the Crown’s acts or omissions in respect of any group. The Crown deals with a number of historical claims by negotiating comprehensive settlements at an iwi level, broadly speaking. These settlements, where possible, provide redress to recognised particular interests within the broader grouping. Although there is an air of justice to the idea of insisting that every single Wai claimant must approve a settlement that covers his or her claims, there are insuperable practical complications, not least of which is that it would incentivise the lodging of thousands more Wai claims by individuals seeking veto power over a settlement that they oppose. The mandate and ratification processes ensure that all members of a claimant group, whether or not they have a Wai claim, have the ability to have their say on settlement.
The third key issue is that relating to Ruamatā Marae. This issue was raised before the select committee, and had not been not extensively explored before then, through the negotiations process. Very late in the process, the marae reservation trust contacted the Crown and sought to have its concerns about low-flying planes on their way to the airport flying directly over the marae addressed through the settlement. It was too late to change the terms of the settlement, but there are genuine issues here about noise and disruption to the marae that need to be addressed. It is not clear at this stage whether that disruption constitutes a historical breach of the Treaty, or whether the Treaty settlement process can deliver a solution to that problem. Not every matter discussed between Crown and Māori has its roots in a historical breach, or its solution in a Treaty settlement. But the Crown is working through Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa with Ruamatā Marae, the relevant central government agencies, and the Rotorua District Council to ensure that these issues are addressed outside of the settlement process. I will be moving an amendment to the bill in the Committee stage that will avoid any doubt that this bill will extinguish any specific Treaty of Waitangi claims relating to the airspace and the flight path. It will not, of course, remove the current Wai claim from the Treaty settlement, which the Ruamatā Marae trust does not want to see happen.
At the Committee of the whole House stage, the Government also intends to introduce a Supplementary Order Paper that will make the following changes to the bill: to provide for public access consistent with that in the Central North Island Forests Land Collective Settlement Bill; to provide for additional redress as a consequence of facilitative mediation with Ngāti Rangiunuora and Ngāti Tamakari, two hapū of the affiliate Ngāti Pikiao; to refine the definition of an affiliate group, Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao; and to clarify and ensure consistency with regard to the treatment of redress involving conservation land.
This is the second reading of this settlement legislation. We will proceed to the Committee stage and the third reading, and then we will go on to consider the Central North Island Forests Land Collective Settlement Bill.
I thank once again the leadership of Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa for its patience and perseverance with the Crown in the long journey towards this settlement, and, particularly, its generosity in holding back on holding the Crown to its previous commitments, to enable the central North Island forests land collective settlement to proceed. At that time I undertook that the final shape of this settlement would be no less, and preferably better, than what it had already agreed with the Crown. I look forward to being able to congratulate Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa on the completion of this settlement process within the near future. It is my intention to try to manage the proceedings of the House—as best as a Leader of the House can—to arrive at the third readings of these bills, and the first readings of other settlement bills, on Thursday morning and early afternoon. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National)
: Tēnā koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I am pleased to stand during the second reading of the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill. I was pleased to hear the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations outline some of the changes that will be made by a Supplementary Order Paper. This is a very important settlement, and that was very clear from the first reading speeches of the members of this House. I remind members that the bill settles the claims of a number of Te Arawa iwi in the Rotorua and Kaingaroa area, representing 24,000 people, and addresses grievances that occurred quite some time ago. The Minister is correct in saying that this settlement has had a very lengthy gestation. Some mention should be made of the generosity, in the end, of Te Pūmautanga in setting to one side temporarily the agreement it had negotiated with the Crown back in 2004. But I would say that neither Te Pūmautanga nor the Crown had any choice, given that the brakes were pulled on this settlement by a quite scathing report from the Waitangi Tribunal, and also by court action by the Federation of Māori Authorities and Tūwharetoa—those who were concerned that this settlement would undermine other interests that traversed the central North Island as well.
But here we are today at the second reading. The Māori Affairs Committee was very pleased to give this matter the urgency it deserved. I make reference to the hearings that we held, one in Taupō and one in Rotorua, and particularly to the iwi representatives who came to the committee and made very forceful, in some cases, and comprehensive, in most cases, submissions. All of that process laid the settlement open to public scrutiny, which was good. In a settlement of this size and nature, that is always desirable. I add my thanks to those of the Minister to those submitters who responded and appeared before the committee.
I will address two or three issues, which have already been addressed by the Minister. On the issue of the flight path over the Ruamatā Marae, the Minister would have heard some signs of agreement on the course that he is taking to address that, so nothing further needs to be said on that. When there is a claim in front of the Waitangi Tribunal, and we see that that claim might be of no purpose once this bill is passed, then clearly it is an issue of great importance to those trustees that this matter is being addressed.
The other matter of concern to us as Māori—but to others as well, particularly those of us who are very proud of our own ancestral connections and very territorial about where we come from, and who should represent us and who should not—is those submissions that were raised in relation to the definitions of collective groupings under schedule 1, and, in particular, the submissions presented by Ngāti Wāhiao, in terms of
its coupling—as it has been referred to—with Tūhourangi, and those of Ngāti Tahu and Ngāti Whāoa.
I certainly take on board the advice the officials brought to us in the select committee, but I personally also have some anxiety about the way entities that might have thought they were in existence on their own account are now suddenly coupled with another grouping in legislation. Certainly there are whakapapa relationships that bind various tribes, iwi, and hapū together. However, when sitting on the Māori Affairs Committee, we heard heartfelt and passionate submissions, particularly by a grouping of Ngāti Wāhiao. They take umbrage at being coupled with what is obviously seen by some as the senior—Tūhourangi—but none the less for themselves in matters of this nature it is pretty important because this has ramifications for the other bill coming down the line, possibly over the next day or so, which is to do with the Whakarewarewa geothermal valley. I have to say that my colleague Tau Henare and I were at pains to explore this issue, along with Te Ururoa from the Māori Party, because in the end we do not know what ramifications lie down the way, in the future, for couplings of this nature. I do not know whether there is a better word, Parekura, other than couplings—
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson): Order!
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU: —I am sorry, I am referring to Minister Horomia—but that is the way we have been describing it at the select committee.
There is the issue of whether Wāhiao, some of whom see themselves as an independent iwi or hapū with their own mana, their own standing, would become subsumed further down the track because they are now coupled with Tūhourangi as simply one of the affiliates of the Te Arawa settlement.
Of course, the other issue is Ngāti Tahu and Ngāti Whāoa. Ngāti Tahu in particular, in terms of physical proximity, are close to Tūwharetoa, my own tribe, and I have to say that over the years in which I have been involved in some of these matters it seems unusual to me that Ngāti Tahu and Ngāti Whāoa would be coupled. Again, the submitters who came to the select committee questioned the mandate of Te Pūmautanga to represent their interests in tandem with Ngāti Tahu, and now with Ngāti Whāoa. Those views are passionately held; but it is not only that—for some, it goes to the heart of who they are. Their whakapapa clearly says who they are, and if they are being lumped into a basket with someone else, who they did not necessarily think should be there—and now they feel they ought not to be there—then this is a real issue. As I say, I for one regret that the Minister has not been able to find some way of addressing that issue. I accept what the officials say, but I say to the Minister that in the end everything is possible. None the less, we support the second reading.
- Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU: I will just mention a couple of other things before I take my seat. One of them is the issue around Tūkiterangi, the ancestor of Wāhiao. That was one of the other issues brought to us at the hearing. Wāhiao were somewhat aggrieved over the fact that they were being lumped under the one ancestor, Tūhourangi. I understand that the Hon Mita Ririnui went and did some work in this area, as I understand he did on the flight path issue, as well. The Government has acceded to including and recognising the ancestor of Wāhiao and having that inserted into the bill—putting Tūkiterangi into the legislation. I hope that that may go some way to appeasing Wāhiao on the fact that at this point nothing has changed in relation to the coupling of Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. Thank you, Mr Assistant Speaker.
Hon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations)
: Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker, and thank you. I was interrupted by my
whanaunga mai i te rohe o te Waiariki. But kei te pai tēnā—kei te pai tēnā. As I said, he whanaunga.
Once again I say that, naturally, I stand in support of the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill, which today is having its second reading. But in doing so I think it is important to mention the Central North Island Forests Land Collective Settlement Bill as well, because these two bills are closely linked in terms of the assets involved, in terms of the iwi and hapū involved, and in terms of the business relationships that will develop in the future. I believe that at some time over the next couple of days we will have the opportunity to debate the second reading of the Central North Island Forests Land Collective Settlement Bill.
It is important to acknowledge the difficulties that the
affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū
have endured over a number of years to bring this settlement bill to this stage. It has been a combination of a lot of hard work, huge commitments, and, most important, compromise. Many will say that Te Arawa never compromise. Well, this bill states something else. It states very clearly that when it comes to the benefits of the whānau and hapū of Te Arawa, Te Arawa put their interests first and are prepared to compromise where it is in their best interests. Te Arawa has done that.
On a more historical basis, I say that, as we know, in 2002 dialogue was entered into between the Crown and the central North Island claimants—with the assistance of a person we know very well, the Hon David Caygill—on how Treaty claims in the region could move forward. In early discussions, that dialogue reached a stage where mandating and negotiations could begin with the affiliate Te Arawa groups in mid-2003. After many months of intensive discussion and hui, the
Kaihautū Executive Council
submitted a deed of mandate to the Crown in December 2003. The Crown and the
Kaihautū Executive Council
signed the terms of negotiations, which set out the objectives of the negotiations, on November 2004. The Crown and the
affiliate Te Arawa groups
also agreed to sign the deed of settlement on 30 September 2007.
Since then, much has happened. As members know, the central North Island settlement, also known as the “Treelords” deal, was signed only a couple of months ago, and we were graced with the presence of some 700 central North Island iwi members here in this House to witness the historical occasion and to support this Labour-led Government in our first reading of the bill. Much of that momentum and the opportunity was born from the
affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū, which, having agreed to join the central North Island collective, also chose to make a significant compromise by passing the final decision about most of their forestry redress over to the largest forestry company in the country, for their benefit and for the benefit of other North Island iwi. Through their agreement to allow their forestry assets to be held over for the central North Island collective settlement, they also agreed to hold their own
affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū
settlement over until the central North Island collective claim had been put to rest. With the progress of the central North Island collective claim, we can now turn our attention to Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa, to finally resolve their grievances and, in doing so, provide them with the cultural, financial, and commercial redress package that they well deserve.
It is true that, as with other Treaty settlements of the past, we are unable to provide iwi with, or return to them, the equivalent of what has been lost from them. However, I believe that this settlement will provide the
affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū
with enough to put them on the path of reaffirming and maintaining their status and development. The redress package includes the transfer of 19 areas of Crown-owned land of special significance to the
affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū—redress that will enable increased input into management of Crown-owned land and protocols with certain Government agencies. In addition, to reflect the compromise made by the
affiliate Te Arawa groups, additional redress has been negotiated. This includes the gifting of land under five Rotorua schools, with lease-back arrangements to the Crown; the gifting of Ngātamariki geothermal assets, based on a value of $5 million; a statement acknowledging the
affiliate Te Arawa groups’
interest in the upper reaches of the Waikato River; and the forgiveness of the current Whakarewarewa Village debt.
I pay tribute to Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa’s head negotiator, Rāwiri Te Whare—now in Italy—and its chairman, Eru George, for their commitment to reaching a settlement. It is also important that I acknowledge Hēnare Colbert, Ruka Hughes, Kere Cookson-Ua, and Brian Barge—also part of the negotiating team. Their work and dedication in reaching a resolution, despite what may have often felt like impossible odds, have been unwavering, and I commend them all. It is also important that I acknowledge the efforts of my esteemed colleagues the Hon Dr Michael Cullen and the Minister of Māori Affairs, the Hon Parekura Horomia.
I cannot stress how important this settlement is to Te Arawa, the Crown, and the whole of the central North Island. We have been experiencing a wave of Treaty settlements, and it is primarily due to this Government’s strong desire to settle historical grievances and to move forward with all Māori as Treaty partners into the future. Also, providing a positive platform for Te Arawa to regain some of the economic status that was taken from them through the acts of the Crown is a way of bridging the historical rift and creating a future of economic growth and development. Therefore, support by the House for this settlement is unanimous, because of the efforts of, particularly, the negotiators for Te Arawa.
I want to comment on the process that was undertaken over the last few years. In particular, I want to comment on the submissions we heard in Rotorua. Some people had longstanding issues with the claim. Some felt that the Crown should listen very carefully to what they had to say, and make genuine attempts to resolve those issues.
I want to speak to one matter in particular, and that is the reference to Ngāti Wāhiao - Tūhourangi. It was a very small amendment that was required—a very small addition. There is a history behind this reference. It goes back to the time of the eruption of Tarawera, when Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao became united as iwi and occupied generally a similar area. In their speeches, their whaikōrero, and in a lot of their whakataukī, they are referred to as Ngāti Wāhiao - Tūhourangi. There is a group within Te Arawa who wish them to be referred to as Ngāti Wāhiao and Tūhourangi. They say the Crown should listen very carefully to this plea and include the word “and”. But my view is that this reference was a historical decision brought about by the displacement of one particular tribe and the compassion of another tribe in bringing them into the area where they lived, so that they shared a common area. If any changes are to be made in terms of the reference to these two iwi, then it is they that must do it, because it was their tūpuna who, as a result of the eruption of Tarawera, made the decision that from that time they would be referred to as Ngāti Wāhiao - Tūhourangi. No one—no one at all—should insist that the Crown be the adjudicator in this case, and that the Crown insert words to separate those two iwi; that is something they have to work on themselves. I am sure there are many in this House who think the Crown should do that; well, I am one who disagrees.
Once again, I thank all my colleagues, including those on the Māori Affairs Committee, for the contribution they have made to bring this important bill to the House today. Kia ora.
Hon TAU HENARE (National)
: Kia ora, Mr Assistant Speaker. I must digress just for a little bit and say how lovely it is to come into the House when you are in the Chair and hear those dulcet tones. Tēnā koe e te Whare. I am glad the member who has resumed his seat, Mita Ririnui, broached the issue of Ngāti Wāhiao and Tūhourangi,
because at the Māori Affairs Committee that was one of the more interesting avenues of discussion that we went down. It is all well and good for Māori to say they want to come to an agreement with the Government and want that agreement to be put into legislation, but then on the other hand they are saying it should not be up to the House to be the adjudicator. But I actually think that our job is to be the adjudicator—a sort of benevolent referee—when there is an issue such as this one.
I do not profess to tell Te Arawa what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. I do not think anyone would be brave enough to do that, considering that we all have the same weapons these days. But I think that Tūhourangi and Ngāti Wāhiao should be uncoupled. I certainly think that there should be a reference in the bill to Tūhourangi and Ngāti Wāhiao, but just because of an eruption some 100-odd years ago and the move to somebody else’s area, that does not mean that they should be coupled. They have their own identities and their own ancestral identities. I suppose I can more easily explain the issue if I look at my own whakapapa—my own genealogy in terms of Ngāpuhi and Ngāti Hine. I would not like it if I or our people were to be referred to as “Ngāpuhi-Ngāti Hine”. Referring to them as Ngāpuhi and Ngāti Hine is not a problem, and—
Pita Paraone: Ngāti Hine and Ngāpuhi.
Hon TAU HENARE: —or Ngāti Hine and Ngāpuhi, as our chairman of the Ngāti Hine rūnanga has said—
Pita Paraone: Former chairman!
Hon TAU HENARE: Absolutely. The former chairman reaffirmed Ngāti Hine’s status as an iwi. But anyway, I digress. Also, it could be said that “Ngāti Hine-Te Rarawa” or “Ngāti Hine-Te Orewai” should be, for example, Ngāti Hine and Te Rarawa, and Ngāti Hine and Te Orewai. I think it is wrong to use the process of the House to give effect to a new group. I have always known Ngāti Wāhiao, and I have always known Tūhourangi; I have never known both to be put together.
The interesting thing is that when we asked a submitter at the select committee—and I will not mention his name—what he thought about the inclusion of the word “and” in between Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao, he said it would not be a problem. A week later, because of pressure, I believe, that was brought to bear on that person, he recanted his acquiescence to the inclusion of the word “and”, and I thought to myself that that was wrong. I will not dwell too much on that issue, but I think it is an important issue of principle.
Another interesting fact that we came to hear about in the Māori Affairs Committee is that approximately 24,000 people are affected by the settlement, but that is not how many people there are on the beneficiary roll and that is certainly not how many people took part in the decisions. I always wonder how we are going to get around the issue of the mandate. Who holds the mandate: is it an organisation that the Crown is working with, or is it the number of people who turn up on any given Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday? I am not trying to cast any aspersions on the mandate process here, but we always have to ask how the decisions were arrived at.
I also raise a concern that I was not aware of, even as a former Minister of Māori Affairs, and if the subject of that concern happened in my time I now want to publicly apologise for not keeping my eye on the ball. The concern is that in the settlement process, the schedule of the settlement bill has all those other Wai numbers attached to it; basically it is the extinguishment of all those Treaty claims. I have a big worry that in the process we go through, although we are all above board in terms of trying to sort out the bigger claim—the wider claim—there are always the little ones, or maybe not so little ones, that are lost in the negotiating and in the clamour to make an agreement. I
specifically want to mention Ruamatā. For the Ruamatā people at the marae, the airport is an issue, and I am glad to hear through the grapevine that the Minister is going to move a Supplementary Order Paper that addresses that. But I think we should be very, very mindful of extinguishing claims to the tribunal without going through a process of negotiation, talking, or getting the bigger claimant to speak with the other claimants whose claims have merit. I do not think we should extinguish those claims willy-nilly.
I commend the select committee and its chair, Mr Dave Hereora, for a sterling job in getting this bill before it, asking for submissions, and listening to some quite detailed and intense submissions, both in Rotorua and in Taupō. So I commend my colleagues who acted on the select committee.
All in all, we can say that the outcome of this bill will be good for Te Arawa. It will be good for the majority of Te Arawa, but there will be some unfortunate claims that are lost in the clamour and in the backslapping, as well. That is unfortunate, and it is something that maybe the next administration—whoever is in it—needs to look at. Thank you.
PITA PARAONE (NZ First)
: Tēnā koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, tēnā tātou o te Whare nei. Engari, i mua i te haere tonu o ēnei o āku kōrero, hiahia ana au kia mihi ki a koutou ngā iwi, ngā hapū o Te Arawa. Koutou tēnā pea e mātakitaki mai, e are taringa mai hoki ki ēnei kōrero i puta mai i te Whare i te pō nei. Nā reira, tēnā koutou.
[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us of this House. But before I continue with my address, I want to acknowledge the people and subtribes of Te Arawa as well, those of you who might be listening in or watching these proceedings in the House tonight. So greetings to you.]
I acknowledge the Te Arawa iwi and hapū who may be watching or listening to this debate on their bill, the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill. I am pleased to stand in this debate on behalf of New Zealand First to support much of the sentiment that has been expressed already.
Of course, we all know that this bill follows many years of groundwork and several months of intensive negotiations between the negotiators, Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa and its team, and representatives of the Crown. To that extent, I acknowledge the team that made up Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa. It was led by Rāwiri Te Whare of Ngāti Tahu and Ngāti Whāoa, and included Henry Colbert of Ngāti Ngāraranui, Ruka Hughes of Ngāti Rongomai, and Brian Barge of Ngāti Kearoa Ngāti Tuarā. I think it is to their credit that, having taken up the cudgels from the group known as Ngā Kaihautū o Te Arawa, under the chairmanship of Eru George, they have got to the stage where we are now debating the second reading of this bill.
The bill has returned to the House after the Māori Affairs Committee, of which I was a member, received and heard submissions on it. I was very proud to be part of the committee that considered the bill. It affects approximately 24,000 members of the affiliate. It follows the process of combining several claims so that they can be dealt with as one group. I ought to say that there has been a long gestation period for this bill, but we are now in what we might consider to be the last lap of the race.
I want to quote something that is attributed to Mr Te Whare of Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa: “There is nothing just about a settlement. It is just a settlement.” I think that quote aptly describes not only this settlement but all the settlements that have preceded it. As much as we want to compensate the affected parties to the maximum extent, there will always be some concern about how fair and how just the final settlement is. Bearing that in mind, Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa, with the authority given it by its beneficiaries, approved the settlement that is now being considered by this House.
I want to make reference to two things. The first is the issue regarding Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. The committee received some submissions stating that they would like to
see the separation of Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao into two entities, and they merely asked that the word “and” should be included. I suppose it is not very often that I agree with my relative who spoke just before me, the Hon Tau Henare, but I think in this regard he was quite right: this is not a matter for the Crown. This issue is based on tikanga, it is based on history, and therefore it should be left to tikanga and the future to decide whether those two tribes should be identified separately. I know that even today, outside of this whole process, in the kapahaka competitions that Te Arawa ran recently to identify which kapahaka group would represent their region at the forthcoming Te Matatini kapahaka competitions, one of the teams that participated was known as Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao.
I took the opportunity during the hearing process to raise this issue with one of the elders from Tūhourangi, and he was quite clear in his response to my question. He said that Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao were essentially one group. He was actually saying that, by virtue of whakapapa, they are quite closely intertwined. I do not believe that it is for this House or for anyone outside of Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao to determine whether they should be separated into two separate entities. I can understand the concerns that those submitters raised about this issue, but as much as I might sympathise with their concerns, I do not believe that it is an issue for this House or for the Crown to determine. I am also mindful of the fact that when the House dealt with the Ngāti Awa settlement bill, New Zealand First opposed the stand taken by this House in giving due recognition to what we referred to as a new iwi grouping. New Zealand First continues to maintain that stance.
The other point I want to make is regarding Ruamatā Marae and its claim to the tribunal with regard to airspace. I ought to say that I mistakenly took its claim that is identified in the bill to be a claim about airspace. I was informed by representatives of the marae that that was not the case. I am glad to see that the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has proposed an amendment that will reassure the marae that it can make a claim in regard to airspace.
In conclusion, I reaffirm New Zealand First’s support for the second reading of this bill. Kia ora.
KEITH LOCKE (Green)
: The Green Party will be supporting the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill. I am a stand-in today for our fine, upstanding member on the Māori Affairs Committee, Metiria Turei, who did all the hard work on the bill for the Green Party.
We acknowledge that the Crown and its representatives have breached, and continue to breach, Te Tiriti o Waitangi. We support the resolution of, and restitution for, all outstanding historical and contemporary breaches. There needs to be ongoing dialogue on the application of te Tiriti to the settlement process.
We understand that, on one side, there are still many hapū and iwi who are unhappy about this bill, just as, on the other side, there are many people who worked very hard to negotiate a settlement through a policy minefield, to deliver to their people. Although the bill will deliver to many of the hapū and iwi, it will also extinguish some claims, and without the consent of the people concerned. The Green Party, and Metiria Turei in particular, have campaigned on an ongoing basis against that practice, because one cannot resolve—particularly in any final form—a matter without the consent of the subgroup that took the claim.
The Greens have been somewhat critical of the overall Government Treaty settlement process, because it is not an optimal or truly just process to restore what Māori lost during the colonisation period. Like the previous speaker, Pita Paraone, we support the Government’s Supplementary Order Paper relating to Rotorua airport. It is good that it excludes from this bill any idea that local people cannot continue their
historical claim concerning airspace issues around Rotorua airport. Metiria fought very hard on this issue at the select committee, and was disappointed when she did not appear to be succeeding. It is good that people gained a greater understanding, and that—as Pita Paraone has just explained—the Government has come round to her position and will table a Supplementary Order Paper.
The select committee heard submitters from Ruamatā Marae talk about the impacts of the airport on them, including cultural degradation, and hazardous health and safety issues stemming from the emission of noise, fuel residue, acoustic vibrations, and backdraught from aircraft. Some of the aircraft are quite low-flying. The Ruamatā Marae sits at the end of the Rotorua airport runway, and the effects on it are serious. In the period before 1992, the ancestral meeting house and associated buildings were relocated only metres away, on lower ground, as a result of the flight path being designated. The meeting house was deemed by the airport authority to be an obstruction to the flight path. The bodies and bones of the dead were violated as a result of the airport authority ordering earthworks to be done to lower the hill on which the urupā was located. The marae committee went into debt as a result of the Crown taking more than 10 years to reimburse the marae for relocating costs. So it was a rather sorry story that was told to the select committee.
The marae was particularly concerned about the effects of incoming aircraft, which often come in to the runway at no more than 50 feet in the air. People are getting whipped by the backdraught. Even in very important situations where people are burying their dead, the backdraught of descending aircraft is hitting them. Having the flight path very close to the marae affects a whole lot of its traditional ceremonies. Karanga, whaikōrero, waiata, and wānanga are all disrupted by aircraft noise emissions. Because of those things, people are deterred from booking the marae for important occasions—birthdays, weddings, etc.—and that makes it harder for the marae committee to generate an adequate income. There is even talk that the acoustic vibrations tend to loosen the nails on the roof; the people have to knock the nails back in every now and again. The effect is quite significant. Fuel residues from the aircraft are spread on the marae and on the kura grounds; kids use the swimming pool and the kura. The hāngi pits at the marae are also affected.
The situation could become worse if international flights start coming into the airport. The sound levels could go up to 60 decibels. That would be very disruptive to the domestic activities of the marae. If the situation became impossible and the marae were forced out—hopefully, it will not be, if it pursues its claim—there is apparently no legal obligation on the Crown, the airlines, or the airport authority to contribute to the cost of relocation.
It is a rather sad situation. The Supplementary Order Paper is very much warranted, and the Greens will strongly support it. Although Metiria Turei is quite proud that, after all her pushing, the change is being made and a Supplementary Order Paper will be brought in, she is somewhat saddened that more could not have been done to improve the bill. Thank you.
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Māori Party—Waiariki)
:Tēnā koe, Mr Assistant Speaker, kia ora tātou e noho nei i roto i te Whare i tēnei pō.
[Greetings to you, Mr Assistant Speaker, and to us seated here in the House tonight.]
In the first reading debate, I took the opportunity to outline the experience of my own iwi in, amongst, and at the side of, this bill. I recall that Mr Shane Jones raised the issues that I was raising for the marae. Me pēnei rawa te kōrero, i kōrerohia ērā take i runga i te marae, ā, i te kāinga i mua noa atu o te taenga mai ki konei, ā, ka mutu, koinā te take ko pupū ake te taupatupatu o te noho o ētahi o ngā hapū, tētahi ki tētahi, ngā iwi,
tētahi ki tētahi. Hoi anō, he whakamārama noa ake tēnā ki a koe e te mema o te Nōta i ngā uauatanga e pā ana ki a tātou.
[Let me put it this way: those matters were debated on the marae and in the home, long before they came here, and as a consequence conflict welled up that caused friction between subtribes and people. However, that is a mere explanation to you, the Northland member, in regard to the difficulties that relate to us.]
I was saying to Mr Jones that the issues he raised in respect of the discussion on the marae did take place prior to the arrival of the first reading of the bill and probably continued to take place. Those issues have been a sore point in the past on various marae, and, although I did not like the comment at the time, I appreciate the sentiment about those issues. I wanted to make it clear to him that putting that kōrero on the record, as I have done, is something I needed to do to make sure that it is on the record, and to that end I leave the matter; it goes no further. It is time to focus on the future.
The essence of this bill, as with any other settlement bill, comes in the text of the apology. In this case it goes something like this: “The Crown profoundly regrets and unreservedly apologies for the cumulative effect of its actions over the generations, which have undermined tribal structures and had a damaging impact on the landholdings and development of the Affiliate.” That one sentence, I would suggest, has enormous relevance for the iwi and hapū of Te Arawa affiliated to Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa Trust, and, indeed, almost every iwi throughout the motu.
Within that one sentence is a history dating back, as other members have said, to the first pre-colonial contact in the 1830s, a history in which contemporary title was converted into title derived from the Crown, and a history in which the Crown acquired Māori land to facilitate Pākehā settlement—land compulsorily acquired for public works purposes and land taken for roading, railways, internal communications, electricity generation, scenic reserves, forest plantation, and an aerodrome. Land was taken and, with it, went the subsequent loss of control and responsibility for our ancestral lands, our taonga, our wāhi tapu.
E kī ana te kōrero, there is a saying: “Toitū te whenua, whatungarongaro te tangata.”—land is permanent, but people pass on.
The apology for the theft of land and the compensation for the illegal acquisition of it is important. For some of the Te Arawa people, this bill has been an opportunity for celebration and joy that at last grievances have been heard and the story told. It is also time to reflect on the long, frustrating, and emotional journey to this point that will come to an end—I think—this week, with many of the original Te Arawa kōeke claimants now having passed on. Many of those I mentioned at the first reading.
E moe koutou whakangaro atu.
[Sleep on and away from view.] Farewell.
I will signal one or two matters that came up, and other members of the select committee have moved into this area ahead of me. I wanted to focus a little more on these issues at the Committee stage, but I will start by heading to the issue raised with regard to Ngāti Whāoa. There was a call from some submitters for a full Waitangi Tribunal inquiry into Ngāti Whāoa claims, even though there are at least two or three Waitangi Tribunal reports instructing the Crown to deal with the uncoupling of Ngāti Tahu and Ngāti Whāoa. The focus from submitters was that such a move would reflect the separate status of each group more accurately. The argument came back to us from officials that such a change should be resisted because the coupling of iwi and hapū was the way it had always been, at least in instances dating back to 1990.
At the heart of the matter was the conflict of definition between Te Pūmautanga and some members of Ngāti Tahu and Ngāti Whāoa, and we could not say that it was resolved in this bill. But this is a significant matter, because the definition is relevant in the central North Island discussions and, indeed, in any future directions from Ngāti Whāoa. To that end I have been asked to present an amendment to this bill, and I intend
to do so at the Committee stage. In essence, it is a request from Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Whāoa.
The second matter is with regard to Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao, a matter that other members have raised. A coupling concern that some submitters talked about was to do with requesting that the designation Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao be changed to Tūhourangi and Ngāti Wāhiao, but there was also a recommendation that the tūpuna Ngāti Tūkitirangi be added to the definition, and hopefully we will hear about that when we get to the Committee stage.
Again, I have to say that the advice from officials did not inspire too much confidence. The comment provided by the Office of Treaty Settlements was that this was a relatively new issue and that the coupling of Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao was well established and accepted by the Crown. Neither of these responses was compelling, in our view, so we look forward to at least placing this matter in front of the Committee by way of a Supplementary Order Paper at the request of the representatives of Te Maru o Ngāti Wāhiao, which will at least address their concerns and interests.
The Hon Tau Henare raised the issues of Waitangi Tribunal claims. The Māori Party was extremely concerned to learn that during the settlement process the Crown had extinguished a number of Waitangi Tribunal claims without either the claimants’ knowledge or the claimants’ consent. The explanation put forward was that this was a result of the Crown’s policy of dealing with large natural groupings. How can it be that the Crown can extinguish Waitangi Tribunal claims through the settlement process without the express knowledge and permission of the specific claimants? That just seems so unjust to me. Surely the people who placed the claim in front of the Waitangi Tribunal have the right to be formally advised that their claim is being settled and to seek their buy-in, as they have been the ones who have given the time, the energy, and even possibly the money in pursuit of the settlement of the grievance. Our comment in the select committee report expresses our concerns.
Other members who spoke before me have talked about Ruamatā Marae. We need to talk about the story of Ruamatā Marae, although other members have already broached some of the issues. Since the 1960s this marae has been continually hammered by way of the Crown allowing the use of the flight path over the top of the Ngāti Uenukukōpako people. I have used the word “hammered” quite deliberately. In the 1960s Ruamatā’s ancestral meeting house was hammered down to lower ground after it was declared by the authorities to be an obstruction in the way of the flight path. At the same time the hill on which the marae burial ground, the urupā, was located was hammered down by machinery, as it too was declared to be an obstruction to the flight path. All of this was despite the marae being in the area long before any airport was contemplated in Rotorua.
However, it is not just the marae tūpuna whare, the hill, and the urupā—the cemetery—that have taken a hammering. So too has the ability to develop homes on the ancestral land due to height restrictions imposed because of the flight path. Today the people of the marae continue to face many other impacts, and these were mentioned by Mr Keith Locke this evening when he talked about the aircraft noise, the deposits of aviation fuel, and so on. This is a real concern. However, one thing the authorities do not seem to want to hammer down are the nails that Mr Locke talked about that are popping out of the marae buildings. This is possibly caused by the acoustic vibrations from the low-flying aircraft—and I have been at a hui when those aeroplanes were going over the top.
Given all of this, it would be no surprise for members to hear that just over a month ago a historical claim was lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal on behalf of the people of the marae. Their claim is that they have been prejudiced by the creation of this flight
path. Having said that, I was pleased to hear from the Minister earlier today that this issue has been looked at and considered. I appreciate it very much that that has been taken care of.
At this second reading I will just acknowledge that considerable progress has been made in seeking to improve the processes that govern the way in which mana whenua entitlement and determination is arrived at, and I acknowledge the work that Dr Cullen has done in respect of moving these settlements along. I also recognise the importance of the meetings held between the Crown Forestry Rental Trust, the Office of Treaty Settlements, and the Waitangi Tribunal to better coordinate resources and improve the models used. The perfect science is still a long way off, and although we commend the new approach—the emphasis on rangatira ki te rangatira, chief to chief—it is an approach that must continue to ensure that the success of settlements continues to move forward. We must do better, and we can do better, and hopefully in the next 7 or 8 weeks or so we will have the opportunity to add to the process that has been developed up to this point in time.
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Māori Affairs)
: Tēnā koe, Mr Assistant Speaker. I stand in support of the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill. The bill gives effect to the settlement reached between the affiliate Te Arawa iwi and hapū, represented by Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa, and the Crown.
I would certainly like to acknowledge at the outset the far-sighted decision of Rāwiri Te Whare and other Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa negotiators to bring the affiliate Te Arawa settlement into the central North Island collective settlement. Alongside them was the Crown side, ably led by Dr Cullen and supported by the Associate Minister Mita Ririnui. The decision was subsequently ratified by Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa beneficiaries, and it has paved the way for the finalisation of the affiliate Te Arawa settlement. The decision to come into the central North Island collective will allow Te Arawa and other central North Island iwi to determine amongst themselves the allocation of commercial and mana whenua interests within Crown-licensed forests. This bill shows the advantages of allowing Māori to resolve their own issues amongst themselves and of not trying to impose solutions from the outside. The fact that iwi leaders have been allowed to take control of the process is the reason we have made so much progress towards settling the claims of Te Arawa and the other central North Island iwi.
I note that several submitters to the Māori Affairs Committee have raised the issues of the coupling of Ngāti Whāoa - Ngāti Tahu and of Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao together as affiliates of Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa. It is important that iwi and hapū be allowed to define themselves for the purposes of Treaty settlements. Following exhaustive mandate processes—and they were exhaustive—the Crown was convinced that Ngāti Whāoa - Ngāti Tahu, and Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao, wanted to be coupled together as affiliates and be party to the affiliate Te Arawa settlement. The couplings reflect the historic, geographic, and whakapapa ties of the groups. Nobody should undo those accountable and representative entities. This measure will ensure that the whole Te Arawa waka benefits from the settlement.
The Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill also provides for significant cultural redress. Twenty-four culturally significant sites, including ones at Whakarewarewa, Te Ariki, Lake Rotokawa, and Lake Rotomahana, will transfer under this bill. Some of these proposed cultural redress transfers have generated debate within other iwi, but, again, iwi leaders have taken the lead in finding ways to resolve these differences, and by and large they have been resolved.
I again acknowledge the Te Arawa leadership. It was bold enough and generous enough to step back twice so that other people could come to the fore. That is something
rarely seen in this country, but it most certainly is recognised. To Rāwiri Te Whare and the other leadership group, I say it was indeed an honour, a privilege, and a pleasure to work with them.
I commend the Affiliate Te Arawa Iwi and Hapu Claims Settlement Bill to the House for its second reading.
CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (National)
: As previous National speakers have said, we will support the second reading of this bill. We will also support the Government’s proposed Supplementary Order Paper 250 and its amendment to clause 12. I am particularly pleased that the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations has tabled an amendment to clause 5, which we can deal with when the Committee discusses Part 1.
I would like to begin this speech by congratulating the Government on the accelerated pace of Treaty settlements in recent times. The last few months stand in stark contrast to the previous 8 years of abject failure and mismanagement. Indeed, this bill, when passed later this week, will double the number of Treaty settlements that Labour has taken from start to finish in 9 years. The central North Island iwi forests settlement, which the National Party enthusiastically supports and which, hopefully, will be passed later this week will triple that number. That in 1 year the Minister can match and exceed the total accomplishments of Mr Burton and Margaret Wilson in 8 years goes some way to showing how poor Labour’s record is in this area. It is only when Labour members are facing defeat at the polls—staring at complete defeat in the Māori seats at the hands of a capable, hard-working Māori Party—that they are bothered to put much energy at all into an area that is so important to Māori and so important to the country.
Let me turn to the bill currently before the House. I was most interested in the contribution of the Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Mita Ririnui shortly after the dinner break, because one could be forgiven for thinking that in his speech he attempted to pass over the history of this settlement. That is probably not surprising, given the shameful attempts by both the Prime Minister and him to rewrite history. Both have claimed this year—only by coincidence an election year, I am sure—that National has not supported a single Treaty settlement negotiated by this Government. That is an especially glaring lapse by the Associate Minister, who seems to have forgotten his own membership of the Māori Affairs Committee when National supported many settlements, including those of Tūwharetoa in the Bay of Plenty, Ngāti Tama, Ngāti Ruanui, Ngāti Awa, Ngāti Mutunga, and others. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that either the Associate Minister’s memory is so faulty that he is not up to the job, or he has deliberately misled the public. Such representations and selective memory are all too common these days amongst Labour members. They are desperate, and, indeed, they will say anything—including on Willie Jackson’s television programme—in a vain effort to cling to power.
Let us look briefly at the history of this settlement, which is not contained in the text of the apologies—and I see the Minister of Māori Affairs looking guilty, and he should look guilty. I have to congratulate Te Arawa on the patience they have shown towards the Crown, and on their commitment to the settlement process, which I truly believe to be commendable. Few claimant groups have had to suffer the poor standard of behaviour that this group has had to suffer under this Government. The Minister attempted to gloss over earlier tribunal reports, rewriting history so as to deflect attention from the shameful failings of his Government. We are supposed to forget that the tribunal said it could not support the settlement progressing in its earlier form, due to the lamentable behaviour of this Government. Not content with such a finding, the tribunal also found that Labour had usurped the rangatiratanga of iwi and hapū, had
failed to act fairly and impartially towards all the claimants, had acted in a manner inconsistent with the principles of the Treaty, had committed grave breaches of the Treaty, had failed to act as an honest broker in the negotiations, had failed to discharge its Treaty and fiduciary duties to all Māori, and did not act honourably and with the utmost good faith. What an appalling performance!
Anyway, the select committee received 37 submissions. Eighteen of them supported the bill in its entirety, and 26 were heard in Rotorua. I join with Mr Henare in commending the chair for the way he dealt with the bill, and also the committee for the way it dealt with the submissions.
As the select committee report states, a number of issues emerged. The first set of issues concerned clause 11, which covers the meaning of “affiliate” and “affiliate ancestor”. Submissions were directed toward subparagraphs (vii) and (viii) of clause 11(1)(a). I must say that Mr Henare dealt with those issues very well in his second reading speech, and I will not attempt to repeat those comments here.
Secondly, a number of mandate concerns were raised, although the officials told us that it was the wrong time to be raising mandate questions, and the committee could not take up that issue during the hearing of submissions.
The third issue—and it has been referred to on a number of occasions tonight—related to the deletion of a number of Wai claims without the claimants’ knowledge, or as a result of the Crown’s policy of dealing with large natural groupings. The committee was told by officials that although individual redress elements may relate closely to particular Wai claims, the redress need not be specific to individual Wai claims, and this approach has apparently been recognised by the tribunal. I must say I share Mr Henare’s concerns about the extinguishment of Wai claims, and I think there is an argument that they should be formally dismissed on notice by the tribunal.
Finally, a question was raised about Ruamatā Marae, which has also been dealt with by a number of members tonight. The marae trust told the committee that the Crown breached the Treaty by designating a flight path immediately over the marae, which is near Rotorua airport, in the 1960s. It was said that this allegation had been made in a claim to the tribunal—Wai 918. The committee was advised, however, that the Wai 918 claim itself does not relate to that issue; it relates to the taking of land for the airport. The report of the select committee records an understanding by the Māori Party that a Government Supplementary Order Paper could include specific reference to the exclusion of an historical claim concerning airspace over the marae. That is dealt with in the amendment that was tabled this afternoon that adds to clause 12 a new subclause (5), which puts that issue beyond doubt, and that is a good thing.
Finally, I want to touch briefly on Part 4, which concerns commercial redress and is the subject of Supplementary Order Paper 250 of 23 September. Subpart 2 of Part 4 deals with licensed land and Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry forest land. I will deal with this issue more closely in the Committee stage. Suffice it to say at this stage that clause 130 deals with the effect of transferred land. The Supplementary Order Paper proposes to add in two new clauses immediately after it: the first, clause 130A, provides that public access is to continue, and clause 130B provides that public right of way easements may be granted. As I said, National members will support that Supplementary Order Paper in its entirety.
So this bill, apart from the minor changes set out on the Supplementary Order Paper, comes back to the House for its second reading. We support the second reading of the bill.
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Māori Party—Waiariki)
: Tēnā koe, Mr Chair. Ki te Minita, tēnā koe. I will just say a couple of things, by way of introduction. I have put a paper on the Table with some amendments that basically deal with some of the issues that have been spoken about today.
I will just concentrate in the first part on the issue around Tūhourangi Ngāti Wāhiao. Mr Pita Paraone explained that at the Māori Affairs Committee hearing we heard that, yes, there is an association, obviously, between Tūhourangi and Ngāti Wāhiao, and during the select committee process we heard that Ngāti Wāhiao has mana whenua over the particular area of land around the tupuna whare that the Minister has been to. I tell the Minister that I think the issue here is that shortly, in the next day or two, we will be discussing the Whakarewarewa and Roto-a-Tamaheke Vesting Bill, and that the definition that is being sought here—and I have a letter on behalf of Te Maru o Ngāti Wāhiao—may well, I suppose, diminish, or, in fact, take away, what Te Maru o Ngāti Wāhiao believes are mana whenua rights in the Whakarewarewa Village. It was keen at the select committee to try to clarify the issue of the coupling, or at least the uncoupling, so that when we get to the Whakarewarewa legislation its mana whenua rights within the Whakarewarewa legislation will be protected, and that is why the issue has come almost backwards, if one likes, to this particular bill.
So at the hearing, as Pita Paraone and Tau Henare mentioned, the question was asked of one Rangipuawhe Maika as to whether, as a senior koeke of Tūhourangi, he would be amicable to the notion of the word “and” being inserted between the two tūpuna, Tūhourangi and Ngāti Wāhiao. At that hearing, as Mr Henare said, there was agreement to that, and he was quite happy with that. Then Rangipuawhe Maika went off, and after a week or so he came back and said that Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa was not agreeable to that. At the heart of the issue is how it is possible for everybody else to make a decision in respect of the mana whenua that Ngāti Wāhiao believes that it may have. How is it possible that Ngāti Wāhiao has mana whenua for the particular lands that it has, yet a bigger group that does not have interests in those lands—except for
Tūhourangi, which may well cross over those boundaries—makes a decision on the outcome?
The real fear from the submitters during the select committee process was basically about the loss of Ngāti Wāhiao as a tupuna, and, of course, Wāhiao is a tupuna. So I have put an amendment on the Table in respect of the addition of the word “and” between the two. Obviously we would have to vote on it, but it sets the scene for the Whakarewarewa and Roto-a-Tamaheke Vesting Bill, which is coming up, because mana whenua is a clear issue in that particular bill. There was a real desire on the part of Ngāti Wāhiao to protect its interest. We heard the story, and clearly, yes, Ngāti Wāhiao and Tūhourangi have for all intents and purposes come together over time, but there was no debate, certainly from those who presented to the select committee, over the fact that Ngāti Wāhiao is, in fact, an iwi in its own right, and it wanted to maintain that view.
The second point that I raise is in respect of the issue around Ngāti Whāoa. I do not think it is too much news that Ngāti Whāoa has attempted, over a number of years, to try to find its distinct place, separate from Ngāti Tahu. Now I speak specifically around Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Whāoa, which is an entity in its own right and has attempted to find its space. It has been through two or three Waitangi Tribunal hearings and ended up in front of Judge Carrie Wainwright to try to facilitate the process. I say to the Minister that we heard at the select committee that from the perspective of Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Whāoa, it did not quite complete the facilitation process needed to allow it to move off in its own way. The fact of the matter is that one of the members of Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa advised that he or she would wait until after the bill passed and then decide to separate out.
In representing the interests of the constituents—at least the group called Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Whāoa—I was asked to place in front of the Committee an amendment to take out from the bill any reference to Ngāti Whāoa. In doing so, I am representing at least that rūnanga, and, of course, the Committee will make a decision on that amendment. I say to the Minister that I accept there are some complications regarding this matter, but I can say that the issue of Ngāti Wāhiao - Tūhourangi was definitely placed on the agenda at the select committee process, and we hoped that it would be dealt with. Unfortunately, of course, it came back from Te Pūmautanga o Te Arawa and it did not quite pan out, so I am obviously following a duty to place this issue in front of the Committee.
The other issue I raise is in respect of Ngāti Tūkiterangi. Again, I thought this issue had been dealt with relatively easily, because there was a select committee process and an agreement by those concerned and those at the hui that Ngāti Tūkiterangi is a part of Ngāti Wāhiao - Tūhourangi—it is a hapū. There was an agreement to that effect, and we thought Ngāti Tūkiterangi would take that away. I thought there was a clear agreement—and the Hon Tau Henare is nodding, too—that that could be added to the bill with not too much hassle.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen: It has been.
TE URUROA FLAVELL: I am sorry, I did not hear that. I am sorry about that. If that has been dealt with, I am pleased. I heard from the Associate Minister, and I thought that matter had not been dealt with, so that is why I raised it. I am happy with that, if it has been dealt with.
Those are three of the issues I wanted to raise in Part 1. As I say, I have some amendments. I know they will go through the process, but at least I can say I raised those issues in the Committee. A real concern, as I say, particularly in respect of Ngāti Wāhiao, is its belief in wanting to maintain and set the scene for the Whakarewarewa bill, with a mandate from its organisation. Similarly, the concern of Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Whāoa is that the iwi be taken out of the bill. I have the minutes of meetings that Te
Puni Kōkiri officials have been at where there was a desire on the part of Te Rūnanga o Ngāti Whāoa to be pulled right out of this agreement, for better or for worse. The rūnanga made that decision, and I place that in front of the Committee for consideration. I think at this point in time that those are the two or three issues that I wanted to raise. I will leave it there, maybe for a response from the Minister. Kia ora tātou.